Episode Transcript
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Scot: All right, guys. Today is going to be a really challenging topic for . . . well, for me. I don't know, maybe it won't be quite so much for you. It could be one of the hardest that I've ever tried to tackle.
Troy: Seriously?
Scot: Yeah.
Troy: We just talked about testicular self-exams.
Mitch: That's what I was about to say. That was tough.
Troy: And I'll say, my wife said after listening to that, "I heard way too much about that. That was too much information." And I'm like, "Well, why did you listen?"
Scot: Yeah. But the right amount of information. I mean, we've talked about a lot of hard topics for sure, like male breast cancer, testicular self-exam. We've talked about prostate cancer. We've talked about getting colonoscopies. But this one, we're going to talk about beans.
Mitch: Beans?
Scot: Yeah. Any guesses why this is going to be a challenge?
Troy: We're going to try and make it interesting, and that's going to be really challenging. I don't know.
Scot: Well, I think it's going to be interesting. I think the challenge for me is going to be we're a men's health podcast. We're talking about beans. The biggest challenge for me is not doing this. [fart noise]
Troy: Oh, no. I knew that was coming.
Scot: Or this. [fart noise] Or one of these. [fart noise]
Troy: I knew it was coming.
Scot: Or this. [fart noise]
Troy: I knew that was coming. Yeah. Now, are those all sounds you were making with your mouth, or do you have some kind of soundtrack cued up there, or what's going on?
Scot: Oh, you would not believe how many sound effects of farts there are on the internet.
Mitch: Yeah. That's a lot.
Troy: Yeah. That was pretty good.
Scot: All right. So the question is why should you listen to an episode about beans, fart sound effects aside? Well, actually, legumes. Or if you want to get technical, pulses.
Troy: Pulses?
Scot: This conversation is based on an article that Troy found on a website called RealClearScience, and it was titled, "Americans Are Ignoring the One True 'Superfood.'" And it talks about the health benefits of legumes. They're off the charts, but a lot of Americans don't eat them. Do you have beans in your diet or not?
This is "Who Cares About Men's Health," with information, inspiration, and a different interpretation of men's health. My name is Scot Singpiel. I bring the fart sound effects and the BS. The MD to my BS is Dr. Troy Madsen.
Troy: Hey, Scot. I'm excited to be here. I'm a big believer in beans.
Scot: Oh, good.
Troy: So this is good.
Scot: Producer Mitch on the show with his unique perspective and always working towards becoming a healthier man.
Mitch: Hey there. I'm a very big supporter of fart sound effects, so I think this is going to be a good mesh of everything.
Scot: So I thought it was interesting. The article said Americans are ignoring the one true superfood, and they said it was legumes. Legumes. Is that how you pronounce it? How do you pronounce it?
Mitch: Legumes.
Troy: Legumes? Legumes?
Scot: And technically . . .
Troy: More emphasis on the U, legumes.
Scot: Yeah. Technically, legume is the plant. The edible seeds are called pulses. See, you learned something.
Troy: Yeah. I'd never heard that before this article. So pulses are what we should be eating.
Scot: So some well-known legumes or pulses are beans, soybeans, chickpeas, peanuts. Did you know peanuts aren't a nut? They're a pulse or a legume.
Troy: Yeah.
Scot: Lentils and lupins.
Troy: What are lupins? I don't know that one.
Scot: A lupin is kind of . . . I don't know. To me, it looks like a big fat kernel of corn maybe in a way, but it's a bean of some sort. They're traditionally, according to Wikipedia, eaten as a pickled snack food in the Mediterranean basin.
So the question is . . . Troy, you said you're a big fan of beans, but what about other pulses? What about soybeans, chickpeas, peanuts, lentils, or lupins? Do you eat those?
Troy: Yes, I do. I definitely eat chickpeas and I try to eat chickpeas every day in the form of hummus. I love hummus. So that's my primary source of legumes, is hummus. I do eat peanuts most . . . well, actually, every day I eat peanuts too. So probably peanuts and chickpeas.
Scot: How about you, Mitch? What on that list are you eating?
Mitch: Not enough, I guess. I mean, Troy, have you always eaten this much, or has it been since you've been a vegetarian, etc.? It just seems like I'm not . . . It's not the main staple where it seems like, "Every day I eat some."
Troy: Oh, it's definitely been since I've been vegetarian. Yeah, I'd say prior to being vegetarian, it was rare. It was very rare I would eat pulses. So yeah, that's been a newer thing, especially as I've tried to find good protein sources.
Scot: For sure, Mitch, I'm with you. I don't eat very many beans at all. My wife, who's also a vegetarian though, she does. She'll eat a lot of dishes that include beans in them.
Check this out, a statistic. The average amount of meat Americans eat is 55 pounds a year, and the average amount of pulses is 11.7 pounds. So the article said we need to be eating a lot more than that. We should be eating about three cups of pulses a week. That's about a half a cup daily.
So the word "superfood" is thrown around a lot, and the article kind of even made a mention of that. I remember one time being in one of these grocery stores in the produce section, and they had little signs telling you what you were looking at, like chard, for example. And then it had a superfood ranking, a number between 1 and 100.
I was starting to juice at this time. I wanted to start juicing, making juices out of stuff in the produce department. So I was like, "Oh, I've got to play the game here. I've got to get the highest numbers I can."
Well, this article kind of makes fun of that notion saying everything is being called a superfood, and our diets are a lot more complicated than that. And there's no one particular food you need to eat more of, like blueberries, that's going to really make all this difference.
But then they did say if there was one thing that is truly a superfood that we do need to eat more of as Americans, it's pulses.
So some of the benefits of pulses. They're super nutrient-rich. They've got fiber and zinc and iron and folate and magnesium. They come with a lot of protein. About a half a cup of beans, which you should be eating every day, or legumes or pulses has about 20 grams of protein.
They're high in fiber, which helps you feel full longer, helps with your digestion because it's good for your gut biome. One cup of black beans contains over half the recommended intake of fiber.
They're low on the glycemic index. If you remember, that's the index that talks about your blood sugar reaction after you eat a food. So that helps with your blood sugar management, especially if you're diabetic or prone towards insulin responses to food.
It also helps you with your weight management not only because it's high in fiber, which makes you feel full, but just because of the caloric density isn't as dense as a lot of other foods.
And it's good for heart health. So check this out, the science behind this. And Troy, I think you'll appreciate this. Regular bean eaters had a 22% lower risk of obesity. And this was on a study of 8,000 American adults. Is that a pretty good-sized study? Can we trust that number?
Troy: Yeah, 8,000 is a great number. And a 22% decrease in obesity, that's a really nice number right there too.
Scot: Subjects that ate legumes or pulses four times or more a week had a 22% lower risk of heart disease and 11% lower risk of cardiovascular disease than those who ate them less than once weekly. That was a study of 10,000 men and women over the course of 19 years. Is that a good study?
Troy: Absolutely.
Mitch: Wow.
Troy: These are great studies. They're large numbers and they're over a long period of time.
Scot: Seven percent to 8% reduction in mortality risk for every 20 grams, which is about 7 ounces, that you increase your daily pulse intake. This was 785 subjects over 70 years old. No other food group came close to having the same benefit, fruits, none of it.
Troy: Wow. They're more than fruits? Wow.
Scot: Yeah. The research went on to say that pulse consumption was the most important dietary predictor of survival in older people.
Mitch: Wow.
Troy: Wow. That's impressive. I mean, like you said, it really is I think . . . Based on these studies and based on what they're seeing with the outcomes, if there's one thing that's jumping out as a superfood, it's this. To have that kind of reduction in obesity, heart disease, but that mortality benefit there, your risk of dying, looking at people over 70 who are just increasing their consumption of pulses and seeing that kind of benefit, that's pretty remarkable.
Scot: Yep. And that's a cup because it's about 7 ounces, right? I think that's about right.
Troy: So one cup per week, I guess. As long as you were increasing by that much, you were seeing that much of a benefit?
Scot: Daily.
Troy: Oh, daily. Okay.
Scot: So a 7% to 8% reduction in mortality risk for every 20 grams increase in daily pulse intake. Now, I don't know if you eat 60 grams, if that increases that to 24% reduction. I wasn't quite clear on that.
Troy: I'm guessing there's some threshold where you're spending so much time on the toilet.
Mitch: Oh, geez.
Troy: You kind of miss out on life and that probably has some issues as well, but . . .
Scot: Fair enough.
Troy: But probably to a certain point, I'm sure there's . . . But just that one cup a day, I mean, just that alone, to have that sort of decrease in your risk of death is pretty impressive.
Scot: The article talked about something called "The Hispanic Paradox." So despite lower socioeconomic status, which is often a predictor of health, American Hispanics have the lowest death rates from cancer and heart disease. And they think it's because Hispanic populations tend to eat a lot more beans.
Troy: Oh, that's really cool.
Scot: And then beans and diabetes. A half a cup of pinto beans contains 22 grams of carbs and the glycemic load is about 9. And if you remember, that's a scale of 1 to 100. Think how low that is. Nine. It only increases a person's blood sugar by 39% compared to an equivalent serving of white bread, which would be 100%.
So then the question is . . . Troy, you're eating some. I don't know, do you feel like you're eating enough at this point this far into the conversation?
Troy: Those are impressive numbers. Hearing that . . . again, I'd sent you the article. I'd read through it, I thought, "Wow, this is cool." But actually hearing those numbers really broken down like that is really impressive. I mean, to me that says I'm doing pretty well, but I think it'd be worth trying to increase a little bit.
Scot: And I should also mention soybeans. That's what tofu is made out of, right?
Troy: Yeah. Exactly.
Scot: So tofu would be included in this. Mitch, how about you? Do you need to work more beans into your diet?
Mitch: Yes. Troy, how do you do it and make it tasty? I know you're not the cook around, but what are the things . . . I don't know. I'll occasionally find a fun salad that has some chickpeas in it because I don't like lettuce. I'll do that every so often. But how are you getting that much every single day?
Troy: The biggest thing for me is, just for breakfast, I have a protein bar, and that protein bar is primarily peanuts. So it's peanuts and dark chocolate. So I really look forward to that. I have a large protein bar. It's just the Nature Valley protein bars. They're pretty cheap. So that's my breakfast. That along with a protein drink and a banana. So that's kind of just my morning go-to.
So I like that, and then I just really like hummus. So usually, my lunch is Triscuits and hummus. It's at a point where usually at work . . . not usually. Every day I'm at work, I have hummus and Triscuits. I am known for my Triscuits and hummus and people make fun of me for it. But I just really like hummus.
I guess I've just got two things I really like and I look forward to each day and I kind of crave. So it's just kind of become my go-to.
Mitch: Interesting. That makes it seem a lot more, I guess, doable. And then occasionally a dish or something with more beans in it.
Troy: Yeah. And then . . .
Scot: Kind of forgot about the peanuts part of it, right?
Mitch: Sure.
Troy: Yeah, because peanuts are pretty easy. And then for my snack, I've just got peanuts. So in the afternoon if I'm looking for a snack, a lot of times I'll just have peanuts for a snack. I like the dry roasted peanuts or just the plain peanuts.
And so it's kind of incorporated where it's stuff that's just part of my routine in a way, those routine meals. I feel like breakfast and lunch, we kind of have our routines, and maybe we're not doing the exact same thing every day, but within some variation, we're doing very similar things. So that's where I've incorporated all that.
Scot: Here's something I'm just noticing now that I'm saying this stuff out loud, right? It talks about pulses, which are from the legume plant, but a lot of the science talked about beans, right? So if beans are where it's at, Troy, then maybe we all could improve a little bit, I suppose.
Troy: Yeah, that's true.
Scot: We're eating chickpeas or we're eating tofu because soybeans make tofu or something like that.
So I was curious what are the barriers? Why don't I, for example, eat more beans in my diet? Why doesn't Mitch eat more beans in his diet? And I found a research study called "Motivators, Barriers, and Other Factors Related to Bean Consumption in Older Adults," and they gave three reasons. Want to guess what those are?
Troy: Too much gas.
Mitch: Yeah. Discomfort.
Troy: People don't like the taste.
Scot: Hold on.
Troy: The discomfort.
Scot: Hold on. [fart noise] All right. There you go.
Mitch: Oh, geez.
Troy: There you go. Yeah, I guess . . .
Scot: Too much gas. What else? That's one. [fart noise]
Mitch: Okay. All right.
Troy: Taste. People just don't like the taste or texture.
Scot: Okay. What else?
Mitch: They don't know how to cook them. It takes time.
Scot: Instead of having all the fart sound effects, I should have had some "ding, ding, ding" sound effects when you got right answers. I guess I could use that in place of a "ding, ding, ding."
Troy: Yeah, exactly. Convenience. I think convenience is often . . . If you're going out to eat, most fast food restaurants besides Taco Bell or Del Taco, you're not going to really find beans there. So that's often an issue.
Scot: So the three barriers. Not a part of their traditional diet, so you just don't think to include them in meals, which I think is totally where I'm at, right?
Troy, you talked about how breakfast and lunch tend to be very kind of . . . you do the same thing all the time. If beans aren't part of your regular routine, probably not eating a lot of them.
Troy: True.
Scot: Lack of knowledge about preparation or cooking, which Mitch hit on the head, were predictors of not consuming. And then number three was, believe it or not, flatulence or abdominal discomfort. That's the reasons that, in this study, people don't eat beans.
So I thought maybe for the last part of this podcast we could tackle each one of those and talk about how to overcome them.
So, first of all, not part of a traditional diet, don't think to include it in meals. Mitch, do you have any dish that you make that has beans in it, or are you just really bean-free?
Mitch: No. There will occasionally be . . . I'll do chicken peas and a roast chicken, and I'll use it in the stuffing, but . . .
Scot: Oh, that sounds good.
Mitch: Yeah, but other than that, I could name a whole bunch of dishes with potatoes. I can think of a whole bunch of dishes with . . . There are so many different vegetable-type sides, but beans are not in there. Very, very rarely. Occasionally at a taco night, I'll maybe throw it in there. Get a can of refried beans or whatever. But no, it's not part of my daily eating.
And now I'm like . . . I don't know. These studies have so many benefits behind them. It's just like, "Man, I guess I've got to figure out how to do beans now."
Scot: Troy, how about you? Do you have any particular dish that you have at home or make that has beans in it other than what you've already mentioned?
Troy: So yeah, obviously, a lot of Mexican food. We love Mexican food, so obviously a lot of those dishes include beans. Some Indian food includes it. And then just other dishes we have as well just because when we're cooking at home, we're making vegetarian food. So a lot of those do use beans as the primary protein source.
I would say a big thing would be if you just look up vegetarian recipes, you're going to find a lot of options on there that do include beans. And then I think it's just a matter of finding the recipes you like, because there are some really good recipes out there where that's the primary protein source. You maybe just try it and like, "Wow, this is great. I would love to eat this every week," or something. And that's kind of what we've found, I think.
Scot: So to work beans in your diet, hummus, which is made with chickpeas. You can do it with Triscuits or veggies maybe. Maybe you should throw away the Triscuits. I don't know. You could use it as a sandwich spread, I read. I thought that was an interesting idea. You could have some pre-made and then just throw them into a salad. You wouldn't even notice they're there.
My wife found a chickpea recipe that's super simple and easy to make. It's with canned chickpeas, which means you're going to increase the sodium content a little bit, but it's a sheet pan feta with chickpeas and tomatoes.
Mitch: Oh, okay.
Scot: Super easy to make. It refrigerates really well, so you have it for a few days. We'll include a link to that recipe. Mitch, I'd like you to try that and see what you think.
Mitch: Okay.
Scot: I think it's really tasty. How do you get beans to taste good? I think that is an interesting question.
Another suggestion: Substitute it for meat. So bean burgers. There are bean burgers out there. You can make your own. You can make bean soup, bean chili. Substitute for meat in tacos.
Mitch: Chili. That's where I'd . . . I love chili. Chili is amazing.
Scot: And if it's not the wintertime, if that's your hang-up with chili, you could probably make a cold bean dish that's kind of similar to chili, I'd imagine, right?
Mitch: No.
Scot: No? Okay.
Mitch: No.
Troy: But we did.
Mitch: What is a cold chili?
Scot: I don't know.
Troy: Well, not a cold chili, but a cold bean dish. That was one of our dishes we did with Theresa.
Mitch: Oh, sure. Yeah.
Troy: Yeah. Remember we had the one that was lentils?
Mitch: Yes. I do remember that.
Troy: Yeah. That was good.
Mitch: I make that still. That's tasty. I'm sorry. I just thought it was a cold chili and I'm like, "No, we're not going to do a gazpacho type approach to chili."
Scot: I'm thinking a bean salad maybe.
Mitch: Oh, sure. Okay.
Scot: You put some onions in there, put some peppers or something like that. That might be pretty decent.
So then to the cooking part, not knowing how to cook them, do you know how to cook them?
Mitch: Ugh.
Scot: Are you serious? You don't?
Mitch: Yeah, there's a weirdness here. Unless it's in a can. If someone hands me a bunch of dried beans, I am not 100% sure what to do. And I'm very embarrassed to admit that here because I do think I'm a pretty competent cook. But ugh, we do not do beans.
Scot: How do you make yours, Troy? Do you do them from dry or do you do canned?
Troy: Usually canned.
Scot: Oh, okay. Again, higher sodium. But if you do the dried, you can cook them on the stove and a pot. You could use a rice cooker. That's what I've done before. A slow cooker or pressure cooker or one of those Instant Pots. I've heard at our altitude here at Salt Lake City that a pressure cooker for some kind of beans is almost necessary because you could boil them forever and they never quite get done. And in a pressure cooker, they can be done, like, in three minutes.
Mitch: Oh, wow.
Scot: So those are some of the ways that you can cook them.
And then what about the gas? Do you guys know how to get around the gas? And this is part of the prep, which is one of the reasons I don't eat beans as much. This part of the prep takes some time sometimes.
Troy: What? The part of the prep? Gas? What are you talking about, prep?
Scot: No. In order to avoid the gas, you've got to do some prep work to the beans.
Troy: Oh.
Scot: It takes time.
Mitch: Really?
Troy: Wow. Okay. Teach me.
Scot: Well, you soak them in water for 6 to 12 hours, and then you discard the water.
Troy: Oh, wow. Interesting.
Scot: There was a research study that said that the longer the soaking time, the lesser the gas production because the more gas-forming compounds are leached away from the beans. Oh, by the way, that does not impact the nutritional value. So you don't have to worry about losing any of the nutritional value.
Troy: So do the canned beans then have less gas formation because they're . . .
Scot: You should always rinse those too. But those have already been cooked, so they've probably been pre-rinsed. But remember, you guys, when Theresa was here, didn't rinse your beans and you got gassy after that dish and I didn't?
Mitch: Yeah.
Scot: So even when you get canned beans, you should put them in a strainer and you should rinse them, get that stuff off of there.
Mitch: So just dry beans and you just put them in water for forever?
Scot: So yeah, I'll just get the big bowl out and I'll put a cup in there and do it overnight, 6 to 12 hours.
I'll put a link. I didn't know there were actually other ways that you could do this too. There's a quick method of soaking, there's a traditional method of soaking, and there's a hot method of soaking. And I'll put a link to that as well. The hot method, you could do it a little bit more quickly than the traditional, but I'm lazy, so I just put them in a bowl overnight and then . . .
Mitch: I am also lazy, but I forget to put things in bowls. So the hour before would be great.
Scot: Yeah. Sure. Well, I'll have a link to how to do that.
Mitch: Cool, cool, cool.
Scot: All right. Cool.
Troy: Was that our discussion on the gas piece right there?
Scot: Yeah. I mean, do you have more to talk about? Are you excited to talk about it?
Troy: There's so much to talk about, Scot.
Scot: Like what?
Troy: Well, I don't know. I mean, I would say one of the biggest challenges with beans is there are a lot of different types of beans. And you may have eaten a certain type and you just say, "Wow, that was not pleasant."
So I will just say from personal experience, I have learned not to consume large quantities of black beans. I don't know why that's the case. Maybe it's because of that fiber content you mentioned. I don't know if it's just higher fiber content, but if I eat a large amount of black beans for dinner, my stomach is pretty unsettled at night.
Scot: But other beans don't bother you.
Troy: Yeah, it's just black beans. And I haven't found it with pinto beans or other beans or definitely with other pulses. And so I think that maybe one of the challenges is a lot of dishes out there are black beans. I think when we think of beans, we think of black beans because there are the black bean burgers and then a lot of dishes you'll get at some restaurants, the beans are black beans and that's the side on it. It's like some kind of TexMex place, things like that. That's what we've had our experience with and we just say, "Man, I cannot eat that. I was up all night and it was not good."
So yeah, I think you find what works for you and be open to trying other types of beans. Pinto beans, I love. But if we have a recipe with black beans, I'm always like, "Eh, maybe we could substitute pinto beans for that," just because I haven't had any issues and I love pinto beans.
Scot: That's a great point. All the different kinds of beans could be a barrier too, right?
Troy: Yeah.
Scot: This list of beans is extensive. Black beans, black-eyed peas, cannellini beans. I guess that's how you pronounce that. Chickpeas, also known as garbanzo beans, great northern beans, kidney beans, lima beans, pinto beans, fava beans, navy beans.
Mitch: Wow.
Scot: Edamame.
Troy: So many beans.
Scot: Oh, is that really considered . . .
Troy: Edamame? Oh, that's cool.
Mitch: It's soy. Yeah.
Scot: Okay. Mung beans, and the list goes on and on. Soybeans. It's a good point, Troy. If one bean doesn't work for you, there are many other beans to try.
Troy: And I will tell you the other thing to consider as well is Gas-X.
Scot: Oh, okay.
Troy: That's the brand name. Simethicone is the generic name. Have Gas-X on hand. And if it's just not agreeing with you, take one of those, you'll probably be fine.
Scot: And I'd imagine after time your body probably gets a biome that can deal with it, right? I've never really had a negative reaction to beans. I know people that do. Obviously the fart jokes are proof of that, right?
Troy: Yeah.
Scot: But over time, I wonder . . . If you started gradually, if you had issues, try a different bean. Maybe start gradually. Let your stomach start to develop the microbiome it needs to digest, to deal with that stuff better.
Troy: Yeah, maybe so. I don't know. I can say I've never gotten to a point where I'm going to eat a black bean burger and then know that everything is going to be cool after that. I'm not there. I will just say that. If a black bean burger is on the menu, I don't order it.
Scot: All right. Hey, Troy, thanks for those additional thoughts.
Troy: Hey, whatever I can offer, Scot.
Scot: Well, I mean, I did bring the fart sound effects, so I'm glad you're stepping up too.
Troy: Yeah.
Scot: All right. Well, I guess to wrap this up, takeaways. Mitch?
Mitch: It's impressive how much of an impact beans actually make. And I guess I got a whole bunch of new things that I can try out to kind of minimize some of those problems that I've had with them before. So excited to try them out.
Scot: All right. Troy?
Troy: My takeaway too, once again, the Mediterranean diet comes through for us. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts. So we know it's a piece of that diet, but now we're really teasing out just on an individual level what a difference these make. So again, that's my takeaway, is anything I can do to increase bean consumption, pulse consumption is a good thing.
Scot: Yep. It's that half a cup a day. I mean, think about it. Those numbers we gave at the top of the podcast, if you could take a pill that could do that, everybody would take it, right?
Troy: Oh, yeah.
Mitch: Sure.
Scot: Yeah. So here's our challenge to you. Work up to that half cup a day or three cups a week over the course of the next few weeks. So your challenge is, this week, find a recipe that you can make and that has beans in it, some sort of a dish.
Mitch: Okay.
Scot: Maybe have some cooked beans in the fridge just ready to go for dishes you already eat and you can just grab a little handful, a little quarter cup, throw in there.
And Troy can appreciate this. Try hummus. Hummus is tasty, especially on vegetables. You're getting the double whammy there. You're getting some vegetables, and you're getting some of the pulses.
And there are a lot of different flavors of hummus, so that's something else you can try. And think about it more than a dip. Maybe just put it on your sandwiches or whatever.
So that's a challenge. You don't have to do it all at once. Work up to it, for a lot of reasons. [fart noise]
Troy: Thanks, Scot.
Scot: And yeah, improve your health, improve your diet by adding more pulses.
If you have a favorite meal with beans or have any comments or tricks on how to cut down on the gas, or how to cook them more efficiently or quickly, feel free to reach out to us at hello@thescoperadio.com.
And guys, we made it through the episode with minimal fart sound effects, so I'm pretty proud of us. Thanks for listening.
Troy: Well done.
Scot: Thanks for caring about men's health.
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